I proudly support things like the current poster campaigns by the VancouverMRAs, and all the good work that is being done by the MRA movement here in Canada. These are brave people that face real hate and real threats of harm on a constant basis because they choose to speak out and fight for a cause that they know is important.
I do however disagree with radicals within the movement. I do not approve of violence, hate speech, threats of harm, or intimidation tactics which some radical MRAs use in order to be heard. I also do not approve of those who are in the MRA movement getting publicity by doing stupid shit. And by stupid shit I mean things like dressing up as a superhero and hanging off a bridge or building to prove a point, promoting inequality with vicious rhetoric against women in an effort to silence any and all opposition, or who see violence/vandalism as their only option to voice their message.These things are not productive in any way, and harm the MRA movement as a whole because it is these acts that get the most press and become representative of the MRA movement to the rest of society.
A good example of stupid shit being done by radical MRAs is the upcoming Man-couver western Canadian men’s rights summit in Vancouver B.C. The summit is actually not the stupid shit, (well as far as I know there should be minimal stupid shit going on there, as with any conference or summit), but the Petition to Canada’s federal government to officially re-name the city of Vancouver B.C. to Mancouver B.C. is.
This has got to be one of the most unproductive and stupid things the MRA movement could possibly be doing. It is not only a waste of time and effort, but it is just plain ridiculous and does nothing for any of us who take being an MRA seriously. This is what I call stupid shit, and I think that most sane people would agree that this is going too far.
In recognition of the ground breaking work done in Canada, and done in Vancouver on behalf of the humanity and the human rights of men and boys, we will be petitioning the office of the mayor, the office of the premier of BC – that’s Christy Clarke, who now has regular breakfast meetings of the senior members of BC’s provincial government in which men are barred from entry and ejected from the premises right down to the serving staff – and we will be petitioning the office of the Prime Minister of this country – my home and yours, Canada – to officially re-name the city in which this human rights work is being pursued, to the appropriate name reflecting this great work. Going forward, let nobody refer again to the obsolete nomenclature of a previous era, and from today onwards let this city be recognized by it’s true name – Mancouver.I understand that the VMRA has done excellent work in bringing awareness to men's rights and issues. I know that Christy Clark is a nut job radfem and that what she does is clearly wrong. But petitioning the Federal Government to change the city's name is just not going to win you any points, or respect. Nor will it help with your credibility as MRAs. You say men's rights are human rights, and I agree, but how is it a human right to re-name a whole city in a male context? How does that promote equality and open up the floor for productive discussion? How is this supposed to get any MRAs taken seriously if this shit is allowed to happen?
As an MRA I do not support this at all. I refuse to sign such a ridiculous petition. I take being an MRA seriously, and I am concerned with real equal rights, which is why I am voicing my disgust for this ridiculous petition. If I were to sign it, or saw this petition as being useful in any way, I would be guilty of supplying more ammunition to those who seek to destroy the MRA movement. And I would also be guilty of perpetuating the stereotype that all MRAs are batshit crazy, and truly hate women.
I don't want to set the MRA movement back a decade, or trash any progress we've made. I want to keep moving forward, be taken seriously, and truly want change. I am standing up to tell these radical MRAs that I am not going to take this shit. They do not represent the majority of the decent and well-intentioned MRAs out there. Most of us do care a lot about real human rights and real equality. We are decent people trying to change public perception one step at a time. And, in my view, a good way to do that is by opposing this crap.
I am a proud MRA and I am appalled by these radical MRAs and their absolute lack of any logical or critical thinking they're clearly demonstrating with this petition. Who in their right mind even thought that this was, in any way, a good idea?
If you think that renaming request is stupid you clearly haven't been out here in Vancouver / Lower Mainland where every little group likes to rename something or the other because, well, something happened / didn't happen and people should remember it by. It's almost a provincial sport.
ReplyDeleteAs for:
"I also do not approve of those who are in the MRA movement getting publicity by doing stupid shit. And by stupid shit I mean things like dressing up as a superhero and hanging off a bridge or building to prove a point,"
Come on, that may be stupid but it's also harmless and does create some attention and not necessarily in a bad light.
Regardless if others are doing it, the fact is that this kind of thing is not going to win any positive support for anyone in the MRA movement. People don't care if others have done this, all they will see is that a bunch of MRAs are being assholes. Don't deny it. That is all that will be taken away from this petition. MRAs already have such a hard time being taken seriously, so I don't see how doing this is going to gain the movement anything positive.
DeleteAnd as for the 'harmless' stupid shit, you are looking at it from a physical perspective. Of course no one technically gets 'hurt' by doing that stupid shit, but it has closed bridges, held up traffic for hours, inconvenienced thousands, and then it gets put out in the press that someone who fights for mens rights did it. People are not going to sympathize with the guy who did it. They are going to be pissed and paint MRAs in a negative light once again.
Remember, most people operate on knee-jerk responses. If you want to get MRA messages across in any positive way, these are not the ways to do it. All you'll get is more negativity and push-back.
My point is that in the local context it isn't uncommon, so people here "going for it" doesn't surprise me and I don't think most locals either. That they didn't think on how it is being perceived outside of the local area doesn't surprise me either as people here tend to be very fascinated by their own shoes.
DeleteWell the argument about "it inconveniences people" is a bad one. Simply because part of demonstrations tends to be to inconvenience people, same with strikes. If we take this as measurement if someone should or should not do something then really, the best way is to just stand at designated spots and hold up a placard. I would also say it is not always about gaining sympathy but raising awareness. As the News1130 report on the whole Commercial Drive kerfuffel noted, a lot of people aren't even aware that MRAs existed. Heck, I wasn't aware of this until late last year as a fallout of Elevatorgate. So getting attention, at least at this point in the game, is not a bad thing.
I think you are too deep into the thick of it to realize how little the rest of the world cares / is aware of these things, the goal should be to get people's attention and then follow it up with good information aftewards and not be concerned about potential negative feedback, because guess what, the detractors will always find some reason to diss you, even if the justification only makes sense in their own head.
I really appreciate your response. You are right about the demonstrations, and I guess I am looking at it from the POV of the mess we are currently experiencing here in QC with the student protesters. They have gotten under the skin of so many people here that when we voted a few weeks ago, Jean Charest was voted back in as a response to the protesters that the public was not in agreement with them or their tactics. People are so fed-up with the student protesters that there has been lots of push back and the students have been pretty much vilified by all. But I do agree that it does draw attention. Question is, what attention does it draw? Most times it's not positive, as with the example of the student protesters here.
DeleteThanks for giving me more perspective on the issue, as I am not in BC. I just hope that this does some good and does not backfire on the MRA movement as a whole. I am a bit of a pessimist, so keep being the optimist for me ok? :)
It depends on how the media will go about it. My French is pretty much gone but the bits and pieces I read in some of the less mainstream outlets wasn't all that bad with regards to the Students. Then again, I tend to pick and choose my news channel and recently being "exposed" to Global TV news I have a much better understanding on how the mainstream forms their opinions, it's not good.
DeleteI also noted that the CBC seems to be going more and more towards Yellowpress, a sad state as I fondly remember them from first coming to Canada and actually being a really decent news source *sigh*.
Either way, the goal here should be to get GOOD sites show up on Google / Bing etc. when someone looks for MRA and not Manbooz etc, as the majority of people just aren't savvy enough to evaluate the site they've landed on.
As for backfiring. If you look at that hack job Openfile did on the postering campaign and look at the comments I think, at least locally, people are much more positive towards it than you may think. As a (gay) friend does not tire to tell me about Commercial Drive: "It's Lesbo depressed", my personal observation is that you have the really heavy granola munchers there whose worldview is... let's call it "bizarre" and a bit out of touch. You have a lot of "bleeding hearts" there and a huge amount of special snowflakes :)
I agree, most credible news sources seem to be going the way of the dodo. I try to stick with local news sources that I can trust, and for the rest of the news I tend to rely on a certain select few trustworthy sites or channels.
Delete"Either way, the goal here should be to get GOOD sites show up on Google / Bing etc. when someone looks for MRA and not Manbooz etc, as the majority of people just aren't savvy enough to evaluate the site they've landed on."
This I totally agree with. The good and informative sites need to be on the first page when a search is done. That is probably one of the biggest goals that people should be working towards, in this internet age.
"As a (gay) friend does not tire to tell me about Commercial Drive: "It's Lesbo depressed", my personal observation is that you have the really heavy granola munchers there whose worldview is... let's call it "bizarre" and a bit out of touch. You have a lot of "bleeding hearts" there and a huge amount of special snowflakes :)"
This made me laugh! It reminds me of the part of Montreal that is around the St.Urbain area. Same area most of the student protesters come from. Lots of special smowflakes there too. LOL!!
Well the superhero thing was never really an MRA action. I think it was just a group of fathers here in the UK who were trying to bring attention to the unfair treatment of their cases (being refused access to their kids).
ReplyDeleteThey are essentially MRAs but they call themselves Fathers4Justice.
I didn't get the Mancouver thing but thought it was a joke of sorts.
There is an MRA meet-up here in London tomorrow, I'm pretty sure most are pretty rational and a few are women so I don't expect any violence or harsh language.
Check out the subreddit /r/Mensrights, It's fairly tame and anyone being an idiot is downvoted. You have to avoid the facebook screencaps of people having arguments but that's a reddit problem in general.
Good to see that you’re at least raising the question as to the appropriateness of the petition. Presumably those advancing it are doing it for a lark or as a joke – sort of like the petition by This Hour has Twenty-Two Minutes to change Stockwell Day’s first name to Doris – and to raise peoples’ awareness of the group. But as you suggest it could backfire on them if their reasons for doing so aren’t clear or don’t become so.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, I think it better for all concerned if the saner individuals in each camp police the others in the same camps who are quite a bit less so. And, unfortunately, there appears to be significant percentages in each camp who fall into the latter classification.
Agreed. This kind of thing just trivializes the MRM's issues and make them sound like a joke. Complete idiocy from whoever came up with this silly petition and those who signed it. The poster campaigns are doing a great job of bringing the issues to the public. This kind of nonsense only hurts that effort.
ReplyDeleteI recall Stephen Colbert getting a European bridge and a piece of Space Shuttle equipment named in his honor, not to mention a bald eagle chick. Publicity stunts are inherently silly, but not necessarily harmful to the cause they promote.
ReplyDeleteThis is the kind of silly crap that makes me reluctant to admit I'm an MRA. Speaking of The Colbert Report, I have a feeling this is going to end up on their "Difference Maker" segment, much like Roy Den Hollander and his hiphop dancing.
ReplyDelete