When your child gets hurt, I know, as a mom of 4 little ones, that all you want to do is scoop them up, cuddle them, kiss them, and make them feel all better. You want to scare away the monsters and be their hero. You want to do all you can to protect them and make their boo-boos go away. That's part of what being a good, responsible parent is.
But as your child gets older you need to let go a bit and allow them to deal with some of those hurts all on their own. You need to step back, as they grow. And as hard as it may be as a parent, you need to allow them to learn to be their own person by not coddling them for every cut, scrape, or bad dream. This is also part what being a good, responsible parent is.
When they reach adulthood you hope that you did a good enough job that, when they leave and go out into the real world, you have equipped them well enough to deal with all the shit that they will inevitably encounter throughout their lives. That you have taught them not to sweat the small stuff in life, and to have a healthy self-esteem. You hope that you taught them to be strong, confident, and rational enough to function as a productive member of society, and to not be a perpetual victim.
But, some parents are abject failures, such as Jen McCreight's father. He has written a short blog post for and about Jen. He has come to her rescue, like a parent does for their small child, only Jen is not a child... She is an adult. Well, an adult in the sense that she is over 18 and looks older than 12. But apparently she still needs daddy to come to her rescue when she gets emotional. She still needs daddy to kiss her boo-boos and frighten the monsters away. She needs this because her daddy failed as a parent and never equipped his daughter with the tools she needs to get through life. It's quite sad, and a great example of bad parenting.
When you coddle your kids constantly, refuse to see them as their own person, and feel the need to constantly prop up their ego, you get people like Jen. Jen should be completely embarrassed by the fact that her father wrote what he did. If she had any self-esteem she'd be furious that her daddy felt he had to come out and publicly chide everyone as if we are all 5 year olds because she got a boo-boo. She doesn't because she is just like a child, and doesn't see her daddy saying what he did as him actually infantilizing her.
This has to be the most pathetic thing I have yet to see. A grown woman being rescued by her daddy. It's a fucking joke, and speaks volumes as to why she can't handle the slightest little bump in the road. She is completely incapable of functioning as an adult. I rather pity her, and that is not a good thing.
Congratulations daddy dearest, and thank you for proving once and for all how completely incapable your little Jen really is.
You know what's really funny? Twenty-two comments, eighteen of them critical to very critical.
ReplyDeleteOf course, he has yet to respond to any of them.
Of course, he has yet to respond to any of them.<~~ i take it your misogyny is latent, since you assume it's a man writing this blog. what i can tell you is that you're a bullshit troll, since you didn't bother to read the post; on the other hand, you might just be incredibly stupid(which is a distinct possibility), since IN THE VERY FIRST FUCKING LINE the author says 'as the mom of 4 little ones'. i'd bother to ask you, but you'd only disappoint. as you've already done. very sad, plustard. go cry in a corner now.
DeleteI suspect he may have been remarking about the negative comment's on Daddy's blog, not the ones here which are a mix.
DeleteIn fact, when I first went to the blog, there were 20 comments, two positive, eighteen negative... not that I'm keeping score.
I love the smell of atheists bashing each other in the morning!
DeletePhil Plait, the holier-than-thou hack, already had to rescue Surly Amy, that other strong, independent chick, so I suppose it was only a matter of time. Lets just hope it doesn't get any more pathetic. It couldn't get any more pathetic, could it?
ReplyDeleteyou wouldn't think so, but you'd be wrong: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=9183#p9183
Delete'Furthermore, there is no denying that some of the hate directed at Jen was unconscionable.'
ReplyDeleteI always wonder about the 'hate' those people receive, as they understandably do not publish whatever it is that is turning them into such pitiful puddles of tears and self-pity. If nobody knows precisely what it is that they are getting, who is to say that the correspondence they've received is unconscionable?
All I have to go on is a few instances of mild disagreement on the censor-happy and banhammer brandishing freefromthoughtblogs. That's not hate. That's sucking up.
Yes, it does...
ReplyDeleteHayley Stevens Dad (@hayleystevens and @heresyclub)
We can't be sure for how much Jen's dad is to blame. Perhaps he did all he could, but Jen just happens to have a fragile personality/psyche. Not much he can or could do, save for being a bit more protective than another parent with a 'stronger' child would be. Anyway, I can see where you're coming from and maybe you're right with your post, but it is fairly one-sided.
ReplyDeleteI'll say it again: Jen and Amy and many others in this A+ tearfest need therapy, not the internet. So much of communication is non-verbal, it's all lost online. Also, trolls. A+ers: For your own good, quit wallowing in the selfpity and affirming and go talk to a professional.
Really? Do you even hear yourself?
DeleteI think what we see here, not only in the dads post but in the behaviour of the people involved, is the end result of the first generation of "helicopter parenting" trying to hack it in the real world. I can't really blame daddy for trying to jump to her aid, but at the same time it also clearly will do more harm than good. Threatening the people on the internet with a "quick fist to the mouth"? Yeah, that worked out pretty much in the way I'd expected it to.
ReplyDeleteI am sure the outrage on the A+ side will come tomorrow once they see all the comments, this post has already been targeted.
right on all counts
Delete"This has to be the most pathetic thing I have yet to see"
ReplyDeleteNo, *this* post is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. Attacking someone you hate by going after her father? How low can you assholes get?
apparently not as low as the plustards: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=9183#p9183
Deleteoh woe is me, life is hard!!!
Snap... I was just about to post that...
Deleteiconografer, this is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T549VoLca_Q
DeleteAnd seriously, I'd say that bagging on a dad for sticking up for his daughter is far lower than listing the problems that come with being a lesbian, suicidal abuse survivor with social anxiety as that so-called "plustard" did. Sheesh. What the hell?
@alasdair: No, this is not 'attacking'. Only in idiot FTB and A+ land is this considered attacking. Being uber sensitive makes you look like a fool to sane people. Enjoy your constant victimization.
DeleteWell aren't you just a disgusting human being.
ReplyDeleteagreed! it's almost like she threatened to punch someone in the face because of a petty disagreement! oh, wait...that's the asshat father. it's so easy to confuse what a 'disgusting human being' is, with a violent, misogynistic overprotective parent. you see how easy it is to confuse them, no?
DeleteThank you! I shall add that to my button collection :)
DeleteGood thing iconografer is here to run to your defense every other comment. I guess he's full of latent misogyny and you're poorly raised.
Delete@Mordachai: I'll be sure to relay the message to my husband... iconografer.
DeleteI think what we see here, in the behaviour of all you poisonous pricks who dedicate your lives to sending hate mail to people you disagree with, is failure to realise that you're not in fucking high school any more.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe you are. Maybe the problem is that you're not actually adults.
Fucking sickening.
what hate mail?
DeleteYou have no clue what 'hate mail' is. People like you hide from their own shadows. Real impressive!
DeleteAll I can say to this post is thank fuck YOU are not my parent. I pity any offspring you may have.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if you had better parents you wouldn't be such an idiot who thinks that people like Jen deserve a free pass because they have mental issues.
DeleteI'd like to know what it is that Jen did that was so bad to deserve this venom and harrasment from you? The only thing you are doing is giving atheism a bad name. To make a comparison with religion, you lot are starting to look like the whackos from the Westboro Baptist Church. There is no evidence of rational thought here and absolutely no empathy, not only with Jen, but I don't see any kind of compassion for anyone. You should hang your heads in shame.
DeleteHear, Hear! I'm tired of living in a society that spends such inordinate time and money on the weak-minded and weak-bodied. Sure, culling the herd of the runts and cretins might be a bit extreme, but at the very least they should be neutered so that breeding isn't an option. If I have to curtail my passion for peanuts for an allergy "sufferer" one more time, I might just scream!
Delete1.it's not dear little jenny, that beautiful special snowflake, it's her asshole father that's being dressed down here. get it fucking straight anna.
Delete2. it's plustards like you who've decided to form a tiny splinter group.
3. wooly's point is pretty clear, and sadly for you, all too rational.
4. compassion? empathy? maybe richard carrier should give you some lessons. or maybe stephani svan, who believes all men are rapists.
5. i'd say you should hang your head in shame, but you disgusting asshats don't fucking have any shame at all.
(long line of sexist epithets) and your amoral, theistic friends ought to crawl back into the bigoted, self-pitying, hole you came from.
and btw: 'caring for your daughter' is not what this asshole did, what he did was 'break the law by threatening violence over the internet'. i love how you scumbags are so ready to excuse the assholes among you (granted, if you didn't, there'd be no atheismplustards anyway, but still)
"Your comment will be visible after approval."
ReplyDeleteIn other words, it will be deleted because the woolybumblebee won't put up any criticism of her appalling behaviour.
And, was it?
Deleteoops....
DeleteWell don't you look like a moron now? ;)
DeleteI know of a few other people who had comments deleted, so the only moron here is you, Woolybumblebee, for censoring comments you don't agree with.Any serious blogger would allow all comments and take the good with the bad, but I don't think you have the spine for it.
DeleteDid you start publishing criticism so that you and your grade 3 bully group could have a little fun?
As for your two stooges who agree with everything you do, it seems they are incapable of thinking for themselves and will say anything to get a pat on the head from you. Maybe you should give them a couple of cookies too.
dear anna mous: you said: "Any serious blogger would allow all comments and take the good with the bad, but I don't think you have the spine for it" -- um....you should take a look at the atheismplus forum rules....and also, stephanie svan, greta christina, ophelia benson, and all the assholes over at ftb who aren't serious bloggers by your definition. maybe if you post this stupid no-true-scotsman fallacy over there they'll just indoctrinate you a little more instead of banning you, or censoring it.
Deletebwah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What an incredibly disturbing thought process.
ReplyDeleteLet me get this straight. Jen McCreight has been targeted with an unending stream of harassment and threats. Her father is upset about this. And your response is to insult and ridicule Jen for having a caring father? To insult her father for caring about his daughter enough to be vocally upset at a campaign of abuse directed at her?
And you actually call Jen and her friends the bullies? How on earth do you function in a civilized society, being this immature?
'caring father', read 'violent internet troll' see if you can keep it straight, i know, it's 2 things, how-so-ever will you cope?
DeleteI function just fine. My dad taught me to be an independent, self-sufficient, confident individual. He would never have done what Jen's dad did. My father had more than enough respect and trust in me to know that I didn't need his help fighting my battles.
DeleteNo doubt about it . . . you are a real piece of work!
DeleteI can't actually get mad at her dad for this. I mean, yes, a parent can't protect their kid forever, but, there is a difference between that and not standing up for them, asked or not. I'm rather confident of my kid's ability to handle trolls, (as he tells them: "wait, you're trolling me? Do you KNOW my dad? Just stop before you hurt yourself."), but nonetheless, if I thought he was catching an unreasonable level of crap for no good reason, I'd be standing up for him, probably unasked, he'd probable yell at me for it, and I'd probably tell him "too bad, Ima do it anyway".
ReplyDeleteBeing a parent does entitle one to *some* unreasonableness when it comes to your kid. Just don't get ridiculous about it.
I didn't see his post as "coming to her rescue" or coddling her. I read it more as his way, perhaps clumsily done, maybe a bit ham-handed, of publicly saying that he at least has her back. I can't really bag on him for that.
also "anna"? All comments here are moderated from what I can tell. You're not special.
"if I thought he was catching an unreasonable level of crap for no good reason, I'd be standing up for him, probably unasked, he'd probable yell at me for it, and I'd probably tell him "too bad, Ima do it anyway".
DeleteSo you don't respect your kid?
'Being a parent does entitle one to *some* unreasonableness when it comes to your kid'.
No it doesn't. They are not your 'property' to do with as you please.
I think its more of an internalization of ownership then any outward belief that they are property. Much like standing up for ones baseball team. *shrug*
DeleteJohn, I know comments are moderated, but if you read my reply above you will see that a few of us had comments deleted and then suddenly they were published. I've been blogging long enough to know how it works.
DeleteI wrote that more of a challenge to Woolybumblebee to see if she would publish the critical comments.
So no, I don't think I am special.
yes, yes anna, of course, you're a special snowflake target.
DeleteWooly,
My respect for my kid takes rather a few forms, and none of those are carved in stone, nor are they all precariously based on any one single thing. We also disagree with each other on things rather regularly. That doesn't denote a lack of respect, just that we aren't going to see eye to eye on every single issue, and in the course of our relationship, have, and will, piss each other off. We're both obstinate, stubborn motherfuckers.
The fact I'm going to, here and there, act in a way he disapproves of doesn't denote a lack of respect from either side. What, I'm supposed to get his approval before I say something about him in a public place? I'm not allowed to speak of him sans specific approval? Um, no. Respect is not a straightjacket, it is neither easily earned nor lost. Deciding that because I'm not always going to respect his wishes on everything even *implies* i don't respect him is the kind of highlanderist, zero-sum silliness that I dislike so much about FTB et al.'
Respect isn't an either-or concept.
This bit:
'Being a parent does entitle one to *some* unreasonableness when it comes to your kid'.
No it doesn't. They are not your 'property' to do with as you please.
If you're going to argue about something I said, actually do that. Actually argue my words. There is nothing, not a single.thing. in that statement of mine you quote that implies, insinuates, or even vaguely approaches your conclusion from it.
I said I get to occasionally be unreasonable about my child sometimes. I didn't say he's my property and has to meekly submit to every damned fool idea I have. Stop pulling a Benson here.
I saw her father's challenge to whoever to had the balls to call his daughter a slut. I saw his threats of violence... and although I just consider him a blowhard, no real threat, no real man, I did think it explains a lot.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder these silly girls are ranting about patriarchy, it's all about their 'daddy issues'. She tried to start a rebellion on the internet, I have to wonder what she is really rebelling against? The phrase, "I blame the parents" does come to mind.
He could have given her some good fatherly advice about how to get on in the world, but instead he decided to have a rant on the internet. He may have been angry and frustrated, but it wasn't very wise. As a famous father once said, "He dun goofed" and came close to making her the Jessi Slaughter of the atheist-web.
Yep! Exactly.
DeleteFlimsyman: Let me get this straight. Jen McCreight has been targeted with an unending stream of harassment and threats.
ReplyDeleteYou omitted "alleged". Must be an honest mistake. This is such a hamster treadmill. Lets see, the community had no problem acting and reporting Dave Mabus to authorities. If these threats are so relentless and ever present, why is none of *this* *ever* reported? Why is no evidence *ever* produced? Simple message headers. But... nothing. Ever. Just more howling and wailing.
This is not good enough. Excuse after excuse. Not good enough. Either act and report it or STFU.
1. Evidence is produced all the time. There are screen-caps, for goodness sake. http://skepchick.org/2012/09/misandry-a-how-to/
Delete2. You know that virtually every single female feminist atheist blogger has stated that they receive this kind of abuse, right? Are you only this hyper-skeptical in Jen's case, or do we have a vast conspiracy of lying feminists?
3. Reporting and prosecuting online harassment is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, as the case with Dave Mabus demonstrates pretty well (incidentally, Mabus was a threatening troll in the atheist community for years and years before reports could be filed).
4. Have you considered the possibility that you're just being a huge jerk? Seriously, would you listen to a person that you barely know talk about how they got horrible harassment for being an outspoken feminist online and respond with "Shut the fuck up, you haven't shown me, personally, evidence of this, so I rationally default to assuming that you're lying."?
Do you really not see what a horrible sexist asshole you sound like?
"1. Evidence is produced all the time. There are screen-caps, for goodness sake. http://skepchick.org/2012/09/misandry-a-how-to/"
DeleteAh yes, what exactly displays the hate of women because they are women there?
"2. You know that virtually every single female feminist atheist blogger has stated that they receive this kind of abuse, right? Are you only this hyper-skeptical in Jen's case, or do we have a vast conspiracy of lying feminists?"
You know that every atheist blogger gets hate mail (or is it "hate male"?) from some one on the internet? Nothing special there either.
"3. Reporting and prosecuting online harassment is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, as the case with Dave Mabus demonstrates pretty well (incidentally, Mabus was a threatening troll in the atheist community for years and years before reports could be filed)."
In Canada it's pretty easy to go after people who threaten you, a report to the police is all it takes, of course there needs to be the will to actually do this instead of treating any nastygram you get as a validation that you must be doing something right because someone is attacking you.
Was that you screaming about hypocrisy? Think it was. Then you don't post my comment because it was slightly critical of your views. Wassums wittle feewings hurt? It's women like you who make atheism look weak. Dish out all day but really can't take it. (Lemme guess, there's an upcoming 3 blog posts about this crying victim "Somebody was mean to me on the internet just because I censored them, boo hoo! Poor me! Gimme MOAR attention!!")
ReplyDeleteoops...
DeleteI was talking about my comment from last night which is still missing. Oops!
DeleteOf course, this will never see the light of day so whatever. Coward.
Projecting much?
DeleteHahahaha! I just figured it out. The post that wasn't approved, it was civil disagreement. All the posts after that, which were less civil have been allowed. Looks like bored mom of four is setting herself up for a sweet blog post about how she's being bullied. :'(
DeleteWell played! (except for the part where it's fucken obvious but considering the source, not bad.)
oh. it's a one woman (plus 4 kids)conspiracy to show you off as the asshole you so clearly are. and btw:how am i a coward? you don't even fucking know me, so what's that conclusion based on? magic beans?
DeleteWrong on all counts. But keep posting so you can look like more of a moron.
DeleteI will gladly publish more of your pointless posts if it will make you feel better. After all, making YOU feel like you have somehow 'pwned' me with your idiotic comments is my #1 priority here.
As for my ever doing a post about being 'bullied'... Nope! Your shit is far from anything that would keep me up at night. I am not a whiny feminist who gets her undies in a wad over the likes of you.
You never stop being a parent to your child. As they get older, your investment of time and money usually decreases; but you never stop being their parent. You celebrate their successes and give comfort in their sorrow. Attacking a father because he loves his daughter and you don't is really petty.
ReplyDeleteAre you gonna dis her kitten next?
"You never stop being a parent to your child." agreed. if you sucked at raising them, that is. part of being a GOOD parent is letting them learn shit from their own mistakes. your idea-such as it is- is nothing more than the white liberal conceit that parents *always* matter. it's the end result of helicopter parenting.
DeleteWould you like me to dis her kitten? I can if you'd like.
Delete"Would you like me to dis her kitten? I can if you'd like."
DeleteExactly! Because you're petty! Thank you so much for your honesty.
@Iconografer - I don't think you understand what Penelope was saying, and I'm pretty sure that you're speaking from ignorance, because I can't see how a parent would misunderstand her point. The parent-child relationship is unique. A healthy parent-child relationship goes through many stages, and along the way the child becomes independent, but the relationship doesn't transform into some other class of relationship with age. The unique factors are always there.
DeleteJen's father is proud of her, and he hurts when she is in pain. The only thing I found mildly objectionable in his post is that he wants to punch the people who spew vitriol at his daughter in the face. IMHO words that are mildly objectionable and calmly stated deserve at best an empathetic but mild rebuke.
Instead, WB, you said the following:
"some parents are abject failures"
By what rubric do you judge that he's an abject failure as a parent? Would your parenting stand up to the same measure? I don't believe so.
"This has to be the most pathetic thing I have yet to see. A grown woman being rescued by her daddy. It's a fucking joke, and speaks volumes as to why she can't handle the slightest little bump in the road. She is completely incapable of functioning as an adult. I rather pity her, and that is not a good thing."
It's difficult to deconstruct this paragraph because there's so much that seems at odds with reality. Jen's dad doesn't appear to be 'rescuing' her, so much as voicing his thoughts and feelings about what's happening on his blog. Also, by what measure is what is happening to Jen the "slightest little bump in the road"? Also, evidence suggests overwhelmingly that Jen feeds herself, bathes herself, holds down a job, maintains healthy work and relationships, and otherwise functions as an adult. Maybe you meant something else?
Dear Proxer,
Deletefranc hoggle, of the Grey Lining Blog wrote an article called 'Dear Daddy McCreight', in which he summarises Ms McCreights activities as a 'feminist' 'activist' on the internet. All this time, she has been horrible to people who have never done her any harm. Her actions have been spiteful, harmful and vacuous. Any father who brought up this person opens himself up to scrutiny and criticism. I wish Jen McCreight well and I hope she overcomes her depression, but I also hope she will use this time of not blogging anymore for some serious introspection and self-reflexion. It does not look promising if she bridges the gap by shitting on the underclass, who are not given the opportunity to give their side of the story.
Dear everybodylovesexpats,
DeleteIt sounds like you're saying "Jen McCreight has said a bunch of stuff that I find objectionable and other things that I don't find objectionable, therefore WB's assertion that her father is an abject failure as a parent stands." Is that correct?
In either case, I'm curious as to your application of "spiteful, harmful and vacuous", because while it applies to some of Jen's writings, by the same standard WB's post is also clearly "spiteful, harmful and vacuous". Would you agree?
Wow. Just wow.
ReplyDeleteWell, if I'm not mistaken, Jen McCreigt's father was brought into this because he has a small blog, and some idiots started trolling it with "UR DAUGHTER IS A SLUT" level comments about Jen McCreigt. So that context needs to be looked at.
ReplyDeleteOn the other side, one angry little feminist who wants to retaliate against Justin Vacula's ill-advised doxing of SurlyAmy has been hassling his parents. That this whole thing is getting *way* the fuck out of line is self-evident.
Well, the context is that he wrote on his blog that anybody who calls his daughter a slut will get a quick fist to the mouth.
DeleteUnless you're new on the Internet what happened next was completely predictable.
I'm going to point out that a lot of folks have been complaining about what Jen McCreight has written but I'm not seeing any specifics mentioned. I'm going to suggest that the Wikipedian protestor response is appropriate here:
ReplyDeletehttp://xkcd.com/285/
If you're going to say something critical, you should:
(1) quote the words you're criticizing
(2) provide links to the original text so others can read the original words in full context
If the folks who are claiming that Jen is being a "bully" or doing other bad things aren't willing to do that, my response is the same as the Wikipedian protestor -- "citation needed."
After all, I'm just being a good skeptic and asking for evidence here.
:^)
I am not here to do your homework for you. Google is your friend... Use it.
DeleteHere's what I found when using Google:
Delete"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." -- Christopher Hitchens
No evidence offered, case closed.
Steve asks for Woooly to quote the words she's criticizing and links to Jen's original text so others can read the words in context.
DeleteWooly's hilarious response is to use Google. What, exactly Wooly, should one enter into their Google search? "What is it about Jen McCreight that so upsets WoolyBumblebee?"? Or, "Wooly hate Jen"? Do you, oh Wooly one, seriously think that such a search would actually turn up any relevant information about why you so obviously severely despise Jen McCreight?
I doubt it. Unless, that is, you are as demented* as your post indicates. This: "I am not here to do your homework for you. Google is your friend... Use it." is exactly the sort of response one would expect from someone who, in fact, actually has no evidence to back up their claims and complaints. Seriously, you can't offer one fucking quote and a link to the post you're quoting to explain your rabid hatred for, I'm guessing, someone you've never actually met? What a pathetic fucking joke!
*Yes, demented. If this post is actually completely serious (is it? are you engaging in hyperbole...at all? <--I'm giving you a possible out here) then you are not only demented (in a, you know, general sense) but also totally lacking in basic reasoning ability, incapable of empathy for either Jen or her father, prone to wild, bordering on delusional, speculations based on the tiniest amount of evidence (and as is the case with the delusional, your conclusions mis- and over-interpret that tiny amount of evidence into something unrecognizable to anyone who doesn't hold to your preconceived notions), and you are obviously ignorant of human psychology and parenting.
Unless this post is a parody (of what a sociopath would write) filled hyperbole (Example, quoting you: "She is completely incapable of functioning as an adult." Is that hyperbole or do you really fucking believe that?), then you truly are a disgusting, ignorant, hate-filled, and, quite honestly, stupid individual. This post is filled with statements that sound as though they are calculated to hurt, not to make any pertinent point, but to hurt. That's what makes you disgusting. I don't know what makes you so ignorant and stupid. If I were prone to wild speculations such as the kind you seem to love to engage in, I'd blame your parents. But that's such a stupid thing to do, so I won't go there. Make a fucking button out of that.
To quote CopyLeft, as I feel it is very appropriate here:
Delete'It seems that some bloggers--many of them female--are slow in coming to the realization that not everyone cares about your hurt feelings. In fact, many people don't give a damn if you're hurt, offended, or upset, and feel zero obligation to do anything about it or try to make you feel better.
The entitlement mentality just drips from the plussers: "I choose to feel offended by your comments, so you're not only wrong, you're a bad person! Now you have an obligation to either apologize or declare yourself an utter sociopathic monster. Oh, and I get to call YOU all the names I can think of, so there."
Maybe that kind of passive-aggressive bullying works in your personal life, Princess, but it's not going to get you any backstage passes online'.
And here's your button http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa335/woolybumblebee/GSI.jpg
Enjoy!
dear steve-o:
Deletei think, perhaps because you are stupid, you are missing the point. i understand your anger. though i suggest you might benefit from some anger management therapy. perhaps some prozac. you're just another example of an asshat that wants someone else to do their work for them. your response is exactly the type of response one would expect from a shiftless, privileged, dumb ass-like the kind that bullied or paid the smart kids to do their homework for them.
after all your bloviating, where are the links which substantiate the diagnoses you've made? unless you're saying you're a psychoanalyst, that is? i blame your parents. they clearly have made a lazy, whiny pussy out of you.
where's my button, steve?
Iconographer,
DeleteNo ... I'm simply saying that an accusation should be backed up with evidence. After all, it's the rational skeptic thing to do.
I've seen plenty of accusations thrown out against Jen McCreight and others promoting the "Atheism Plus" proposal. But no citations and no direct quotes of the allegedly horrific things they've written.
It's not a matter of coming from privilege ... the person making a positive claim has the epistemic burden of proof.
It's the same principle that applies when a theist asks an atheist to provide evidence that God doesn't exist when the burden of proof falls on the person making the positive claim (in this example the theist claiming that God exists).
And if all you can do is respond with argumentum ad hominem, maybe you don't really have anything to say?
"No ... I'm simply saying that an accusation should be backed up with evidence. After all, it's the rational skeptic thing to do." <~~ can i take this to mean you don't believe rebecca watson's elevatorgate story? she has yet to provide any evidence. furthermore, no evidence exists to support 'patriarchy theory', and what evidence is extant regarding dv shows that domestic violence is very often reciprocal.
Deleteas far as your claim of argumentum ad hominem, you, like many people who drop big words, are mistaken as to their meaning. i said you are stupid. not that your argument is stupid. your argument isn't even really an argument. argumentum ad hominem actually requires me to claim a causal link between the insult and the argument. in my opinion, you are stupid, quite independently of your argument. your argument isn't stupid, it's just not an argument. what i did was insult you, not ad-hom you. you're giving yourself a bit more credit than i have.
"I've seen plenty of accusations thrown out against Jen McCreight and others promoting the "Atheism Plus" proposal. But no citations and no direct quotes of the allegedly horrific things they've written."
that you aren't aware of the evidence is itself only evidence that you haven't been thorough at doing research before opening your pie hole, not that there is no evidence. again, you've no argument here, only an admission of being ill equipped to enter the discussion.
i suggest that in future, rather than responding w/o thinking, you take some time to inform yourself. however, there is a bright lining in my destruction of your commentary: one of your brethren, who didn't bother to research the matter, tried to score idiot points by pointing out that i'm defending woolybumblebee quite often here. the fact is, i'm her husband. still, i would also suggest that instead of thinking of down-and-dirty commentary such as mine often is, as a sign of a lack of intelligence on the part of the speaker (which is a liberal white conceit,but that's a different discussion entirely), consider that it perhaps may be disdain at what in the extant case is a clearly mediocre 'argument'.
have a nice day
Iconografer -- Well you mention "research" and I've done some before posting here.
DeleteI've read lots of stuff on Jen McCreight's blog before and after it moved to the Freethought Blogs network. I haven't read 100% of her words.
However, based on what I've read, I'm having trouble finding the justification for your outrage or your spouse's outrage. Maybe the difference is one of interpretation? Or maybe it's something else?
If the evidence regarding Jen is so obvious to others, then it should be trivially easy for someone to find it, quote it, and post the link where it was found.
So far, I haven't seen that done and the responses appear to be deflecting strategies to avoid the request for evidence.
Regarding the original "elevatorgate" story, do keep in mind that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I will illustrate that with a hypothetical example.
If Rebecca's story was that a specific person made a clumsy and ill-timed elevator invite and it was you, I would expect more evidence than just her word on it. Were you there and can it be substantiated using travel records, conference records, security cameras in the hotel, etc?
Rebecca's word by itself would not be enough evidence if she were saying that you were the elevator guy. In that hypothetical example, I would expect more evidence than just a recollection of the incident in a YouTube video.
However, reporting that an unnamed man in a atheist conference setting made a clumsy and ill-timed elevator invite (prompting Rebecca Watson to offer the helpful advice "Guys, don't do that" via YouTube) isn't really an "extraordinary" claim. Unfortunately, the elevator incident is quite plausible.
Wow, what a shitty excuse for a human being you are. Congrats: you and icongrafer are what's wrong with the Atheist/Skeptic community. Keep up the shitty work!
ReplyDeletei'm going to cry now....i may even cut myself....wait, sorry, that's you evolutionarily maladaptive motherfuckers who can't stand others being mean to them....sorry....reading you and your brethren's sorry excuse for argumentation is viral....i'm going to go talk to intelligent people now.
DeleteYes, this.
DeleteWoolly Bumblebee -
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I think when I read this is that you enjoy hurting people. It must be especially easy for you to bully those that have already been bullied.